Terry Dussault is President of Yellowknife Consulting Services in Huntington Beach, California. His focus is conducting incident investigations and promoting safety programs. Many of the projects that require Terry’s attention involve waste-cleanup and pollution abatement.

These sites often contain lots of piping and pumps, which means lots of ways workers can get hurt. (Tyler asks if scuba gear is ever involved. The answer is no, but here’s the kind of diving Tyler was referring to.)

Tyler asks Terry to talk through an average day, and Terry said that a whole lot of it is about paperwork. There’s a massive amount of documentation. You need to know the protocols. Eddie asks for some of the good things in the world of safety recently. Terry recalls how little safety gear was offered or used when he started working in the field. It was pretty much just steel-toe boots–no helmets, no vests.

Terry discusses the incredible importance of traceability when it comes to safety standards. It’s essential that an employer be able to provide documentation verifying that appropriate steps have been taken to keep the workplace safe. This helps in litigation and in providing employees with peace of mind. We explore the generational differences in perceptions of safety regulations. Terry says many veteran workers brush aside safety concerns because they’ve never had significant accidents or seen coworkers get hurt.

He shares he confronted an older worker who had chosen to ignore the company glove policy. Terry pointed out to the guy that all of the incoming employees who train under him will likely follow his example. The Book of Gore: This is the title Terry’s brother, a paramedic, gave to the photo album he assembled to document the terrible things that can happen. He refers to this book when attempting to encourage the use of gloves and other safety equipment.

erry says that the root cause of unsafe work conditions is when the shortcutting of procedures is positively reinforced or tolerated.

On the topic of gloves, Tyler asks about how Terry has seen people deal with the increased presence of touchscreen-based technology on the worksite. Terry talks about reasonable exceptions that need to be made for people in specific situations. We discuss balance and practicality. Tyler mentions that excessive protocols can lead employees to want to stick it to the man. Terry talks about an oil company that required two layers of gloves. At first this struck him as ridiculous, but then he came to understand that they were dealing with contaminants that can be absorbed through the skin. If his skin had gotten wet, he’d have been absorbing serious toxins.

Tyler asks Terry what safety protocols he’d like to see implemented. Terry says that it’s not so much which protocols should be added as it is about how management should get involved. He wants to see leaders becoming more active in supporting employees in their efforts to remain safe.

Terry tells a story about a nightmare cleanup where a former owner had allowed various companies to fill a tank with a variety of chemicals. Terry had to lead a crew through the process of solidifying the liquid. That meant putting a few of his guys in direct contact with the chemicals. An executive in the company overseeing the project asked when they were going to be able to scale down the PPE budget, and Terry had to be really blunt with him.

Eddie discusses whether we create a Chicken Little dynamic when we have excessive regulations like requiring two people to move a 16’ 2x4. This leads to another messy cleanup story that shows the complexity of assigning liability in multi-million-dollar projects. He talks about the fact that there are often two versions of incident reports after incidents like this one. Tyler asks Terry to share some wisdom with young people entering the industry. Here’s what he shares:

• Try to become the best you can be, but also think about integrating a level of safety into your practice. Learn it all.
• It’s okay if you don’t know something. Ask.

Terry’s Megaphone Message: If you’re a worker and you see something that doesn’t feel right, stop and ask. You don’t have to proceed. Have some personal policies regarding safety. Don’t be afraid to speak up.

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