Barry Windham, as you may know, is the son of Blackjack Mulligan, brother of Kendall Windham, and brother-in-law of Mike Rotundo (Irwin R. Shyster). He's also a multi-time WWF tag champ, a former NWA champ, a member of the most highly regarded lineup of the Four Horsemen, and a fairly honest guy. My only problem with him is that he's a bit scatterbrained and will start a topic but never finish it up (meaning I have to complete some of his thoughts), but I think that's residue left over from some nasty concussions he's had over the years.
The interview opens as RF is interviewing Windham in the Turnbuckle Championship Wrestling dojo in Marietta, Georgia. TCW is Dusty Rhodes' current indy fed. How did he get started? He was going to West Texas State, which produced some of the GREAT wrestlers of all time including Terry Funk, Bruiser Brody, and Tully Blanchard. He got into the business setting up the ring for Dick Murdoch's territory in 1979. He couldn't wrestle at first because he was on football scholarship to West Texas, but JJ Dillon came to town one night and insisted he wrestle him. He went back to doing grunt-work and learned the business-side of wrestling from Terry Garvin, whom he puts over heavily. He refereed for QUITE a while before he was allowed to start wrestling full-time. His father's reaction- Blackjack never really asked him if he wanted to get into the business. When he found out Barry was wrestling in violation of his scholarship, he apparently wasn't happy but didn't say much. (Windham claims he was fast enough to make it as a pro football player (4.6 40 yard dash at 238 pounds) and could deep-snap, as well as being a heavily decorated amateur wrestler, so those options were open until he violated his scholarship) His first major territory- He'd worked Amarillo before but that was more like working a HUGE region rather than a real territory. He thinks he started working in Florida for Eddie Graham and Dusty Rhodes in February 1980. Guys he learned from- He learned a lot by watching Don Muraco. Unlike the current style in the business, Muraco would be slow and methodical but would make every single move mean something. Manny Fernandez was a guy he learned the technical side of the business from. Dusty also coached him on a lot of stuff. Mike Graham- One of his best friends. Hard worker, worked his way up from setting up the ring to finally wrestling. During the mid-90's while both were working for WCW, they'd be buying Harley Davidson motorcycles from people up north during the winter and either keep them or resell them in the south, which allowed them to pick up a nice amount of pocket change along with some nice hardware. Eddie Graham- Long-winded, only had a 6th grade education but learned out in the world VERY well. His suicide was a tragedy and was probably the result of unchecked mental illness. Had a great relationship with him. Dick Slater- "Like a Terry Funk clone." Slater watched Funk like Windham watched Muraco. Hard worker, very stiff. If he hits you, it WILL hurt. Kevin Sullivan- Vivid imagination. He predicts their shoot with him will be pretty interesting. "He was like the Devil's Advocate" and came up with a lot of unusual stuff like having Blackjack, Barry, Kendall Windham, and Mike Rotundo team up and discuss how they're family. Ending up in the WWF the first time- Dusty ran a show in the Orange Bowl in Miami and management's numbers came back lower than the actual attendance, so Dusty left Florida and took Mike Rotundo, Ron Bass, and Barry with him to Mid-Atlantic. The towns in Mid-Atlantic were on their asses at the time, so Dusty had to work hard on the storylines as well as getting guys to work hard in the ring, but promoter Jim Crockett wasn't taking care of the guys monetarily. Barry got a check for $134 for two weeks of wrestling, so he bailed on Crockett and it caused a large rift between him and Dusty. Blackjack hooked him up with George South, who was Vince McMahon's booker at the time, and Vince gave him a tryout which lead to a job. He ended up making $6000 in his first week, but is unsure if Vince did that for everyone to get their attention or if he did it in his case because he knew the chickenfeed Barry had gotten paid in Mid-Atlantic. Locker room atmosphere in the WWF- He wasn't really accepted into the power clique of Hulk Hogan, Roddy Piper, and Paul Orndorff, but Orndorff did like him and took him under his wing. He ended up hooking Rotundo up with a job in the WWF, but Rotundo did it in his usual formal way and gave his two-week notice to Dusty and Crockett before leaving. He thinks Pat Patterson came up with the US Express concept and talked about how they were getting thousands of dollars each week and made about $200,000 a year in 1985. Winning the tag belts from Dick Murdoch and Adrian Adonis- He'd known Murdoch all his life and Murdoch was a true character. He was happy-go-lucky 95% of the time but you'd KNOW if it was that other 5% of the time. Adrian Adonis was a guy he didn't really understand. Adonis didn't like the idea of putting them over, so he refused to put them over for the belts one night. Murdoch eventually talked Adonis into working the match. Adonis and Murdoch were probably the biggest opposites he'd seen in the business and thinks it's horrible that Adonis died like he did (car accident), but he never really knew him well because Adonis didn't want to know him. Early impressions of Vince- He was always treated well. He doesn't have any problems with Vince, but Vince has a LONG memory, which bit Barry in the ass years later. After having a 96-day run on the road, Rotundo eventually flipped out and disappeared. It turned out that he used one of the open-ended plane tickets Vince had given them and flew home to Florida, which Barry found out from his sister when he got back to the hotel. The next night, Barry went off HARDCORE on George Scott, Chief Jay Strongbow, and a few others, talked about how he was done in the WWF, then went home to Tampa and disconnected all his phones. Considering that they were criss-crossing the country and flying all the time instead of making regional loops and driving a few hours from town to town, it sounds HORRIBLE. He figures Vince would have worked with him if they'd talked, but he was too far gone. Rotundo, on the other hand, flew back a few nights later and just started working again. Around this time, something to the effect of "Aw FUCK!" came out of Barry mouth because he'd burned QUITE a few bridges when he'd walked out. Dan Spivey ended up in his spot eventually because Vince figured that he could clone Barry. Working with Tully Blanchard- He wrestled him at the time that the Horsemen started. He talks about how people think he was one of the original Horsemen, instead of being in the third lineup after Ole Anderson and Lex Lugar had been in the group. He joined the group when he, Crockett, and Dusty realized that it was the perfect time for him to turn on Dusty, as well as his ability to lead a match making him a great heel (heels control most of the match, with the babyface's comeback usually being the limit of their involvement in the match's direction). He and Lugar were partners against Tully and Arn Anderson when he turned. Since Lugar was the #2 face at the time, it meant that Dusty, as the #1 face, was the next guy who'd face Windham after the Horsemen destroyed Lugar. (Typical Dusty logic... sacrifice someone to make a new guy, then use them to keep yourself over). Nervous about the heel turn? No, because he'd get more control over the match as a heel (which was truer back then than it is now). Since he was able to work with the babyfaces who were getting stale facing the other Horsemen, he was able to inject some new life into the promotion. He then talks about how it was a major image change becoming a Horsemen, as he had to put his blue jeans and cowboy boots aside for nice suits and $1000 shoes. However, the timing was right for the turn so it was all good. Working with the Road Warriors- Worked with Rotundo against them at the Orange Bowl show mentioned earlier. Both teams were tentative at first but things started working out when Windham decided to play heel and start calling the match, at which points things took off and it turned out well. Working as a heel against Dusty- It was during Dusty's heyday. "He's still capable of getting over in the ring and on TV" (I challenge this because Dusty's old fat ass wouldn't be over) Talks about how Dusty always won. Ricky Steamboat- "Probably the best babyface of his era, and possibly of all time." Nothing but a gentlemen, and has his total respect. (Another common thread... every guy in one of these who's talked about Steamboat puts him over HEAVILY as a person and as a wrestler.) Was he contacted to go with Tully and Arn Anderson to the WWF? No. Talks about how the Horsemen angle had run its course and egos were clashing, so it was probably for the best that they jumped to the WWF. Doesn't think that their move turned out as good as it should have. Drugs in the industry- He took painkillers while injured, and there's a reputation for guys in the business to abuse them. "You take a beer and a Vicodin and you're havin' fun." He, however, has legitimate bone and joint conditions which mean that he could legally have them prescribed if he chose to ask for them. Talks about people passing out on Soma tablets because the recommended dose is 1-2 pills and guys would take a handful of them at a time. Talks about how he had one of his knees completely replaced (MCL, PCL, ACL, meniscus, etc. all at the same time) using cadaver parts. West Texas Rednecks- When he came back to WCW, they put him in that gimmick and they got to have a lot of fun with it. It was Jimmy Hart's idea, and was the result of an off-hand comment he'd made about Barry and Kendall. Then, without the knowledge of himself, Kendall, or Bobby Duncum Jr,